fleur delacour bill weasley age gap
Loopy Lupin - Jun 2, 2004 4:34 pm (#101 of 159)
Well, we haven't heard anything about internships at this point. Doesn't saying that G-dor hasn't won "since Charlie left" imply that they won before he left?
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Verschwinden Sie - Jun 2, 2004 9:08 pm (#102 of 159)
Yeah, it does imply they won before he left. However, it doesn't mean they won JUST before he left... only that they won while he was on the team.
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Lexicon Steve - Jun 5, 2004 4:01 pm (#103 of 159)
In my opinion, you have to take the entire answer to the "how old are Bill and Charlie" chat question in order to understand what she intends.
Before she even tackles the question, she makes a very telling comment about maths. Her uncertainty means she is working out the answer right then and there, the way I look at it. She didn't know flat out. So that means she's got a general idea but no way in those few seconds to research to make sure she's correct.
Then she says that they're two years apart. What is she really saying? Here's my interpretation of her answer. I think she's saying that as far as she can figure without having the time to do the work properly and therefore with being forced to do the math in her head, they're two years apart.
Given that, what do we actually know from her response? We can't dismiss the answer out of hand, even though there's canon evidence against it. She did actually try to give the right answer. So even if canon implies more time, we have to assume that the space between the boys isn't very much, "something around two years."
However, we don't have to go with exactly two years and try to find fancy math ways to make that work out. She doesn't really do fancy math stuff. She wouldn't have come up with some fancy, clever, math way to make them two years apart in age and three years apart in school. That's out of character for her. What is in characer for her, as we see in plenty of examples, is to write it the way she wants to and leave a trail of minor errors in the books. It makes more sense to figure that they boys are about two years apart, maybe a bit more, and that some bits in the books might not quite fit that.
If Charlie were two years older than Percy, he would be at Hogwarts when Harry was in his first year. Yeah, we can invent reasons why he wouldn't be there, but he was Head Boy so I think it's pretty solid that he attended in his seventh year. So the next logical possibility is that Charlie is really three years older than Percy. That still doesn't fit every canon reference to Quidditch Cups and games won, but it fits what I see as Rowling's intention in her answer. And then of course there's no reason why Bill couldn't be two years older than Charlie.
There's still a mystery, of course, because Percy doesn't turn 17 until his seventh year at Hogwarts, finally learning to apparate the summer after, while Fred and George turn 17 in April of their sixth year. That really makes the actual ages tricky to figure out. Is that another example of a minor error in canon?
sigh* Maths.
On that confusing note, I'll wander off to work on a Lexicon page on the subject...
Steve
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Mare - Jun 5, 2004 4:14 pm (#104 of 159)
Thank you Steve, you put it down very clearly. What I find interesting now is that there is not supposed to be a big age-gap between the boys. Which doesn't help the theory of the "missing/dead Weasley" that would make Ron the seventh child.
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Tomoé - Jun 9, 2004 2:27 pm (#105 of 159)
Back in business
Charlie was Head boy? I though only Percy and Bill were. Did I miss something?
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Julia. - Jun 9, 2004 3:50 pm (#106 of 159)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
No, you're right Tomoe. Bill and Percy were Head Boy, Charlie was quidditch captain.
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Tomoé - Jun 9, 2004 5:14 pm (#107 of 159)
Back in business
Thanks Julia, I wasn't that lost then. ^_^
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jun 21, 2004 8:41 pm (#108 of 159)
From the information in the books we can derive the follow possible birth years and ages for Bill and Charlie
From Prisioner of Azkaban Chapter 8
Griffyndor hasn't won for seven years now. Based on that staement the last term in which Griffyndor won the house cup was 1985-1986 school year since prisoner of Azkaban is set in 1993-94 school year
From Philosopher's Stone chapter 9
We haven't won since Charlie left.
This would mean that Charlie's last year was 1985-86 and not the 1984-1985 school term as the lexicon time line suggests and his first year would be the 1979-80 school year. Depnding on which is correct Charlie Weasley is born 1967 or 1968
Assuming Bill is no more than two years older his last term would have fallen in the 1982-83 or 1983-1984 school years. This means his first year would have fallen in either the 1976-77 or 1977-78 school year which would place his birthdate in 1965 or 1966
Making Charlie no more than 29 in August of 1996 and Bill would be no more than 31 years old in August of 1996
Best Regards, Nathan Zimmermann
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Loopy Lupin - Jun 25, 2004 6:42 am (#109 of 159)
What is in characer for her, as we see in plenty of examples, is to write it the way she wants to and leave a trail of minor errors in the books. It makes more sense to figure that they boys are about two years apart, maybe a bit more, and that some bits in the books might not quite fit that. -- Lexicon Steve
I wish there was a better way to say "ditto," but let me just say "Ditto!"
Its been very interesting to see all the logical gymnastics we've gone through to make their ages add up correctly. I think it is enough to say that Bill and Charlie are twenty-somethings not very long out of Hogwarts. That "fits" with statements made in the canon and, not to mention, makes Bill's "private" English lessons with 18 year-old Fleur less "icky" than if he were 30 or something.
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Robert Dierken - Jul 6, 2004 4:09 pm (#110 of 159)
Another quidditch chronology:
1986-1987 Charlie's 4th year, and Gryffindor wins the cup for the last time until 1993-1994, which is 7 years later. Several good players graduate and are replaced by poor ones.
1987-1988 Gryffindor goes 1-2 despite Charlie's 5th year performance.
1988-1989 Charlie's 6th year. They go 2-1 because they have Oliver, but are beaten out on tie break.
1989-1990 Charlie's 7th year and Oliver's 3rd. Gryffindor goes 2-1 and is beaten out on tie break. One chaser, two beaters and Charlie depart.
1990-1991 Oliver's 4th year. Angelina, Alicia, Fred and George join the team, the other chaser subs as a seeker, but is not very good and Gryffindor goes 0-3. This seeker departs.
1991-1992 Oliver's 5th year. Katie and Harry join the team, and at this point Gryffindor has not won a match since Charlie left. Gryffindor goes 2-1 and loses out on tie break.
1992-1993 All teams play only one match. Gryffindor goes 1-0, but loses the cup on tie-break.
1993-1994 Gryffindor goes 2-1, and wins the cup on tie-break in Oliver's 7th year.
By this reckoning Charlie is about 8 years older than Harry and Ron. At the beginning of OoP Harry is 15, so Charlie is about 23, Bill 25, and Fleur is 18 or 19.
Oliver and Charlie are on the team together for two seasons.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 6, 2004 8:16 pm (#111 of 159)
This alternative chronology would make Charlie Weasley's first year at Hogwarts the 1983-84 school year. This would mean that Charlie was born in 1972 and he graduated Hogwarts in June 1990 A year before Tonks. Making him no more than 23 years old in August 1995
If Bill is no more than 2 years older than Charlie. His last year at Hogwarts would have been the 1987-88 school year. Thus, his first year at Hogwarts would have been the 1981-82 school year. This means he was born in 1970 making him no more than 25 years old in August of 1995.
This means that Bill, Charlie, Percy, Fred and George Weasley are contemporaries of Nymphadora Tonks. This alternative chronology does not confirm J.K. Rowling's statement regarding the ages of Bill, Charlie, and Percy. Because, According to this chronology the space interval between the births of Charlie and Percy Weasley is four years.
Best Regards, Nathan
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Loopy Lupin - Jul 9, 2004 12:05 pm (#112 of 159)
Charlie and Percy Weasley is four years. Nathan Zimmerman
I thought she said their was 2 years between Charlie and Percy.
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Julia. - Jul 9, 2004 1:21 pm (#113 of 159)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Well, she said there are two years between Charlie and Percy, but I'm not sure I believe it.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 9, 2004 2:36 pm (#114 of 159)
Loopy Lupin, neither the calculations I posted earlier or the alternative posted by Robert Dierken support J.K. Rowling's statement about the age of the eldest Weasley children.
Robert Dierken's calculations show approximately a four year interval between the birth of Charlie Weasley and the birth of Percy Weasley.
Robert Dierken - Jul 6, 2004 4:09 pm (#110 of 114)
Another quidditch chronology:
1986-1987 Charlie's 4th year, and Gryffindor wins the cup for the last time until 1993-1994, which is 7 years later. Several good players graduate and are replaced by poor ones.
1987-1988 Gryffindor goes 1-2 despite Charlie's 5th year performance.
1988-1989 Charlie's 6th year. They go 2-1 because they have Oliver, but are beaten out on tie break.
1989-1990 Charlie's 7th year and Oliver's 3rd. Gryffindor goes 2-1 and is beaten out on tie break. One chaser, two beaters and Charlie depart.
1990-1991 Oliver's 4th year. Angelina, Alicia, Fred and George join the team, the other chaser subs as a seeker, but is not very good and Gryffindor goes 0-3. This seeker departs.
1991-1992 Oliver's 5th year. Katie and Harry join the team, and at this point Gryffindor has not won a match since Charlie left. Gryffindor goes 2-1 and loses out on tie break.
1992-1993 All teams play only one match. Gryffindor goes 1-0, but loses the cup on tie-break.
1993-1994 Gryffindor goes 2-1, and wins the cup on tie-break in Oliver's 7th year.
By this reckoning Charlie is about 8 years older than Harry and Ron. At the beginning of OoP Harry is 15, so Charlie is about 23, Bill 25, and Fleur is 18 or 19.
Oliver and Charlie are on the team together for two seasons.
Robert Dierken's calculations would make Charlie Weasley's first year at Hogwarts the 1983-84 school year. This would mean that Charlie was born in 1972 and he graduated Hogwarts in June 1990 A year before Tonks. Making him no more than 23 years old in August 1995
If Bill is no more than 2 years older than Charlie. His last year at Hogwarts would have been the 1987-88 school year. Thus, his first year at Hogwarts would have been the 1981-82 school year. This means he was born in 1970 making him no more than 25 years old in August of 1995.
While my calculations show a interval of approximately nine years between the birth of Charlie and the birth of Percy Weasley.
Nathan Zimmermann - Jun 21, 2004 8:41 pm (#108 of 114)
From the information in the books we can derive the follow possible birth years and ages for Bill and Charlie
From Prisioner of Azkaban Chapter 8
Griffyndor hasn't won for seven years now. Based on that staement the last term in which Griffyndor won the house cup was 1985-1986 school year since prisoner of Azkaban is set in 1993-94 school year
From Philosopher's Stone chapter 9
We haven't won since Charlie left.
This would mean that Charlie's last year was 1985-86 and not the 1984-1985 school term as the lexicon time line suggests and his first year would be the 1979-80 school year. Depnding on which is correct Charlie Weasley is born 1967 or 1968
Assuming Bill is no more than two years older his last term would have fallen in the 1982-83 or 1983-1984 school years. This means his first year would have fallen in either the 1976-77 or 1977-78 school year which would place his birthdate in 1965 or 1966
Making Charlie no more than 29 in August of 1996 and Bill would be no more than 31 years old in August of 1996
We know that Percy Weasley's last year at Hogwarts was the 1993-94 school year. This means his first year at Hogwarts was the 1987-88 achool year. Therefore, Percy Weasley was born in 1976.
Under Robert Dierken's timline Charlie Weasley is born in 1972 an interval of four years.
Under my timeline Charlie would have been no less than eight years years older than Percy. Since, my calculations range his year of birth from 1967 to 1968.
Neither of which, support J.K. Rowling's statement that each of the eldest Weasley children being born at two year intervals.
Best Regards, Nathan
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haymoni - Jul 9, 2004 5:06 pm (#115 of 159)
Sorry but in the chat did she say that Charlie & Percy were 2 years apart or was it Bill & Charlie that were 2 years apart?
I don't know why I'm even asking this. I don't really care - they are older - it just doesn't matter to me how much older.
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zelmia - Jul 9, 2004 11:32 pm (#116 of 159)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
They are all 2 years apart with the exception of Ginny and Ron. Bill is about 10 years older than Ginny. When we first meet him, in the flesh, in GF, he is about 23. This perfectly coincides with his remark late in the book about not having been back at Hogwarts in 5 years (making the year he left school 1989) as well as Ginny's remark in CS about having wanted to go to Hogwarts "ever since Bill".
Again, go back to Harry and Ron's first meeting on the train. Ron says, "Charlie's in Romania studying dragons and Bill is doing something for Gringotts." Ron doesn't even know what his eldest brother does for a living, only that he works for Gringotts. It might be because it's too new for him to have any real knowledge of the details of Bill's position.
He also says "Bill and Charlie have already left [school]." Not, "left ages ago" or anything else to indicate that they are all that much older. On the contrary, Ron indicates their greatest accomplishments (which he personally finds daunting) as being Head Boy and Captain of Quidditch respectively. Both of these Ron holds in greater esteem than either of their post-school occupations, at this point. To my mind, all of this indicates that Bill and Charlie have very recently left school when Ron is starting.
Another thing is that just because Charlie was a good Seeker doesn't mean that the rest of the team was all that great. And do we really know that the 7 years from the last time Gryffindor won the Quidditch cup has that much to do with Charlie's particular performance? I think Charlie being an exceptional Seeker and the team winning the Q-cup might have had more to do with the combination of the entire team. If all of their Chasers graduated in one year (as they will have in book 6), it could mean that the Gryffindor team was simpy unable to recapture the synergy it took for them to retain their title. And it does parallel Wood's own Quidditch career at school, as well.
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Robert Dierken - Jul 13, 2004 8:52 pm (#117 of 159)
If Charlie is two years older than Percy, we need an explanation for his absence from Hogwarts in PS/SS. Otherwise, he would be a seventh year in 1991-1992, but he has already gone to Romania.
We are told that Gryffindor has not won at Quidditch since Charlie left (in PS/SS) so I interpreted this to mean they had not won any of the games in 1990-1991, and that Charlie was a seventh year student in 1989-1990.
In PoA we are told that Gryffindor has not won the Quidditch Cup for seven years. If Charlie was a seventh year then, he is somewhat older than I am making him out to be.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 14, 2004 1:10 am (#118 of 159)
Let it snow!
I'm going to go with 1) the two years is approximated (when asked I say I'm four years older than my little sister, not four years, four months and a day, give or take) and thus was a year or two ahead of Percy in school (can't really make the "or two" work, though), 2) Charlie really did quit the team prior to graduating, thus graduated the year before Harry got there but just wasn't playing (or perhaps hadn't been for a couple years), or 3) Charlie really did leave schoo early and entered into a program to study dragons in Romania just after his fifth year (we haven't seen this before, but then again, Harry is only just know at the age where we would get to see it so we might have to wait and do a head count of who comes back to school in HBP and who doesn't)....
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zelmia - Jul 15, 2004 12:06 am (#119 of 159)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
It's perfectly simple: Charlie had just graduated the summer term right before Harry and company start their Hogwarts careers. HRH begin at Hogwarts in September of 1991 (based on Nick's cake.) Charlie left school the previous June (also 1991).
What's confusing is the idea in PA that Gryffindor hasn't won the Quidditch Cup in 7 years (or since 1987). But this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Charlie. In fact, if they hadn't won the Q-Cup in 7 years (as of PA) it would have been Charlie's 2nd year on the team - assuming he made the House Team as soon as he was eligible. Therefore, as I mentioned in a previous post, it seems that in spite of Charlie's exceptional skill as Seeker, there were too many other factors that prevented Gryffindor from retaining their title; such as most of the team graduating or being plagued by injuries, etc.
Or, like several people have suggested, he simply left Hogwarts early to study dragons and did not go through his 7th year.
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snowflake - Jul 17, 2004 6:00 pm (#120 of 159)
In PA when McGonagall gave back to Harry his Firebolt (p. 184 UK version), it would have been the 8th year they would have lost if they do not win this year. I figure that Charlie must have graduated in Spring 1986, so he was at Hogwards 1979-1986; born in 1968. And Bill said at the Triwizard cup (1995), when he came to Hogwards to watch Harry (p. 535 GF UK version), he said that he had not seen Hogwards for 5 years. So I assume that he graduated in Spring 1990; was in Hogwards 1983-1990; was born in 1972. Percy dob 1976; Fred and George 1978; Ron 1980; Ginny, 1981.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 17, 2004 6:07 pm (#121 of 159)
Let it snow!
Snowflake, problem with that is that we are repeatedly told that Bill is the eldest of the brothers, and Charlie is thus younger than Bill, not older than him.
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dobbyiscool - Jul 17, 2004 6:50 pm (#122 of 159)
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
Just becuse it's be 5 yrs. sense he was last at Hogwarts, doesn't meen he graduated 5 years before, he could've come back for some reason.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 17, 2004 7:06 pm (#123 of 159)
Let it snow!
Well, the five years would fit within the age range she gave for Bill, Charlie and Percy of two years apart each....
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zelmia - Jul 17, 2004 8:00 pm (#124 of 159)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
I'm having a hard time understanding why this is so complicated. There are only 3 possibilities, all of which include the fact that Gryffindor simply didn't win the Cup again:
1) Charlie left school in the preceding term before Ron, Harry et al started (Summer 1991)
2) Charlie left school early to pursue career in dragons
3) Charlie left the Team to pursue career in dragons
All three are equally plausible, although #1 doesn't fit in very well with the Twins' remark "We haven't won since Charlie left" (PS/SS). If Charlie had just recently 'graduated' this remark really doesn't make any sense.
And since we know that at some point he was made Captain, we can therefore deduce that either #2 or #3 are what happened with Charlie's school career. But neither of these seems to have had any direct bearing on Gryffindor winning the Q Cup. Again, there were clearly other factors involved that Charlie's excellence as Seeker/Captain could simply not overcome.
Also, I am going to guess that if Charlie did leave school early, it was probably right after 5th year. [While there is no canon evidence for it, I am going to guess that only upper classmen (5th years and up) would be allowed to make Captain just as only upper classmen can be Prefects.]
Paranthetically, if Charlie had decided not to rejoin the Team in his 6th year, that would have been the Twins' first year. Wood have been a 3rd year and very likely played with Charlie for a season. The point being that all 3 boys would have seen the difference of Charlie's presence on the pitch.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 17, 2004 9:05 pm (#125 of 159)
Let it snow!
Zelmia: All three are equally plausible, although #1 doesn't fit in very well with the Twins' remark "We haven't won since Charlie left" (PS/SS). If Charlie had just recently 'graduated' this remark really doesn't make any sense.
It could make sense if Charlie wasn't on the team all six possible years. If he quit prior to graduating and then graduated just prior to Ron and Harry coming to Hogwarts, and Fred and George were referring to him leaving the team and not school, then it makes sense. That's why it's so complicated....
Overall, though, I think I agree... At least I think I do.... Nice and ambiguous, huh?....
EDIT: By the way, can anyone find the quote about Charlie being Captain? I can't seem to find it....
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Julia. - Jul 17, 2004 9:22 pm (#126 of 159)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Found it Sarah!
"I'm the sixth in our family to go to Hogwarts. You could say I've got a lot to live up to. Bill and Charlie have already left--Bill was head boy and Charlie was captian of Quiddich." (PS/SS ch. 6, pg. 98 US)
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S.E. Jones - Jul 17, 2004 9:24 pm (#127 of 159)
Let it snow!
Thanks Julia! And here I was going crazy looking through PoA...!
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zelmia - Jul 18, 2004 12:42 am (#128 of 159)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
Actually, what I was saying is that I don't think it's complicated, but most others on this thread apparently do. I think where it appears to be complicated - but really isn't - is because a lot of folks can't seem to separate the idea of Gryffindor winning the Q Cup and Charlie being on the team. By that I mean that people seem to assume that Gryffindor didn't win the Cup because Charlie left the team/school. But as I have explained, one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other.
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The giant squid - Jul 18, 2004 12:48 am (#129 of 159)
Exactly, Zelmia...just because Charlie was on the team (and good enough to go pro, according to Wood) doesn't mean they necessarily had to win the Cup. He could have been a very frustrated captain for those last couple of years, with injuries, lucky shots or just incompetent players keeping him from that elusive goal.
Problem solved...not that it'll stop the discussion. 
--Mike
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Maddest Dragon - Aug 2, 2004 11:40 pm (#130 of 159)
Here's my theory about the ages of the Weasleys:
Charlie is actually three years older than Percy and four school years ahead of him (Charlie being born in the summer, so he could start at Hogwarts when he'd just turned eleven, while Percy was born in the fall or winter and didn't start until he was almost twelve). This is close enough to JK's guesstimate of two years between the brothers, but it fits the rest of the details better.
Charlie stayed at Hogwarts through his seventh year, finishing a little over a year before SS begins. That leaves a whole school year between Charlie's leaving the Quidditch team and Harry's joining. That was the year in which Oliver Wood became captain--somehow he seemed to me to be a well established captain when he was first introduced. The Seeker that year either was in seventh year (most likely) or gave up quidditch after that (possibly because he or she wasn't that good at it). The last time Gryffindor won the Quidditch Cup was during Charlie's fourth year, after which, as other posters have said, they may have won individual games but not the Cup. I suspect Charlie did something Oliver kept harping on in PoA--remember how, before the final game, he kept badgering Harry not to catch the Snitch until Gryffindor was over fifty points ahead? "'Only if we're more than fifty points up, Harry, or we win the match but lose the Cup.'" Oliver saw Charlie, perhaps in more than one game, catch the Snitch before Gryffindor had enough points to win the Cup, or perhaps even the match. If, as others have speculated, the team as a whole wasn't playing very well, Charlie would have done this to save face--knowing that his team couldn't possibly manage to win the Cup, but at least they could win the match, or, barring that, not lose as badly. This would also explain why Fred and George bet their entire life savings on Krum doing the same in GoF. They'd followed the World Cup closely enough to know that it's likely to go that way, and they knew that the Seeker may well do such a thing, because they'd seen their brother do it.
Of course, by my reasoning, Fred, George, and Charlie couldn't all have been on the Quidditch team at the same time, because Charlie's seventh year would have been the twins' first. (Probably, Charlie's game-winning-but-Cup-losing Snitch catch happened that year--Oliver would have been on the team, the twins would have been watching from the stands, and none of them ever forgot it.) Earlier, someone mentioned Ginny saying that the three of them used to make her Keep for them when they practiced. But that doesn't necessarily mean they were all on the team at the time. I can easily picture Charlie, home for the holidays and excited about Quidditch, roping his younger siblings into practicing with him. Which is probably why the twins got to be such good Beaters--Charlie made them play those positions so he could Seek.
Back to the question of ages. At least one poster thought that it wasn't likely Percy had turned seventeen by the end of his sixth year, because he didn't pass his Apparations test until the following summer. But I think it would be just like Percy to wait. When the twins first tell Harry about Apparating, they stress how difficult it is and how things can go horribly wrong. Seventeen is the minimum age at which you can learn to Apparate. It may be something that takes most people a long time (several months at least) to learn and perfect. The twins seem to be exceptionally quick studies when it comes to practical things, evidenced by the level of talent they would need to perfect all their jokes. Percy is just the opposite. He's extremely dedicated to academics and gets top grades, but he's also the only Weasley child (with the possible exception of Bill) who never plays Quidditch. Perhaps because he lives in his head and is a klutz at all things physical? I can see something like Apparations not coming easily to him. Plus, Percy's such a perfectionist that it would be just like him to spend a good long time preparing before he even attempts the Apparations test--perhaps he spent the entire summer between his sixth and seventh year learning and took the test the next summer.
In keeping with JK's estimate, I think Bill really is two years older than Charlie. Or--and I like this even better--he may be ALMOST two years older but only one school year ahead. This would happen if, say, Bill's birthday is in October and Charlie's in August. That would make Bill five years ahead of Percy, seven years ahead of the twins, nine years ahead of Ron, and ten years ahead of Ginny. Ginny wouldn't be able to remember when Bill started at Hogwarts, but she would remember him being there. Plus, if Bill is five years ahead of Percy, it really would be five years (plus some months) since he'd been a student at Hogwarts when he came back in GoF. Also, he'd be just about six years older than Fleur, which is well within dating range even by Muggle standards.
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zelmia - Aug 3, 2004 12:08 am (#131 of 159)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
Actually, Charlie failed his first Apparation test as well. (See GF) So it doesn't necessarily mean anything that Percy failed his the first time -- other than it's a very difficult exam.
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Amilia Smith - Aug 4, 2004 7:17 pm (#132 of 159)
If Percy had failed his test the first time, the twins would have mentioned it. They never miss an oportunity to get a rise out of Percy. I like your idea, Maddest Dragon, that Percy saw Charlie fail his first exam, so then took an extra summer studying to make sure he didn't fail as well.
While we don't know if Bill played Quidditch for Gryfindor or not, he does play. After the World Cup, Harry, Ron, Fred, George, Charlie and Bill play a game of three on three.
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zelmia - Aug 4, 2004 11:33 pm (#133 of 159)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
I stand corrected. "Percy only passed 2 weeks ago... been Apparating downstairs every morning just to prove he can..."
Still, Charlie did fail his the first time.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 6, 2004 9:31 pm (#134 of 159)
Ginny had been looking forward to Hogwarts ever since Bill went... and she would have been less than a year old when Bill went...
Very interesting...
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zelmia - Aug 7, 2004 6:51 pm (#135 of 159)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
Yes, but she would have been old enough to remember him being the only sibling at school - at the very least in the latter part of his first or second year. So her remark still makes sense.
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Maddest Dragon - Aug 13, 2004 5:48 pm (#136 of 159)
Well, I've looked over the books again, and I think it's equally possible (to what I said in post #130) that Charlie was only three school years ahead of Percy. What got me thinking like that is Bill's remark about it being five years since he was at Hogwarts--and, when I double checked, I realized that it's June when he comes to watch Harry. So, if he's almost two years older than Charlie but only one school year ahead, and Charlie's three years ahead of Percy (but maybe closer to two years older), then it's literally five years since he (Bill) graduated.
Looking at it this way, Oliver Wood became team captain the year Harry joined. I'd thought he was probably captain a little longer--but, really, there's no reason why he couldn't have just become captain. In this scenario, Charlie and at least one of the Chasers have just left Hogwarts at the beginning of PS/SS. Wood isn't very optomistic about finding a good Seeker--perhaps he's already held tryouts but didn't offer anyone the position because everyone who tried was terrible. Or perhaps he's just been moaning to McGonnagall, something like, "How will we ever find a good Seeker? No one could ever be anywhere near as good as Charlie." The team hasn't been in good shape anyway; the last time they won the Cup was Charlie's third year. What I speculated earlier, about Charlie catching the Snitch when Gryffindor couldn't possibly win, still happened--but it might've happened only the year before, when they got "flattened by Slytherin." If it did, the twins were on the team at the time.
Katie Bell also joined the Gryffindor team the same year as Harry. In OotP, Ginny says something like, "I think I'll go out for Chaser next year. Alicia and Angelina are leaving." Since she doesn't mention Katie, we can assume that Katie's staying, and is therefore only a year ahead of Harry. If she was in second year when he was in first, then that's the first year she could've played. For all we know, Angelina and/or Alicia might have joined that year, too.
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Tomoé - Sep 7, 2004 2:41 pm (#137 of 159)
Back in business
'Alicia Spinnet, a good find of Oliver Wood's, last year only a reserve' (PS ch.11 p.137)
Alicia was the reserve, not Katie.
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 7, 2004 2:52 pm (#138 of 159)
Who said anything about Katie being a reserve? What I said was that Katie couldn't have joined the team before Harry's first year, because she's evidently only one year ahead of Harry.
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Tomoé - Sep 7, 2004 3:28 pm (#139 of 159)
Back in business
Oh, sorry, I read too fast once again. -_-
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zelmia - Sep 7, 2004 9:56 pm (#140 of 159)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
I have a hard time understanding why the ages of Bill and Charlie are still in question. Rowling answered this outright in a very recent interview. Why are people still, after 130+ posts, having such a difficult time coming to terms with it?
There are only 3 possible explanations for Charlie's absence at Hogwarts Harry's (and Ron's) first year:
1) He'd just "graduated" - either the summer term before Ron and Harry started (meaning June '91) or even the the year before.
2) He'd left school altogether, having come of age.
3) He'd left Hogwarts to go study dragons in Romania.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 9, 2004 10:15 am (#141 of 159)
Hi everyone there is a new essay up on the Lexicon regarding Bill and Charlie's ages.
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El Cronista de Salem - Oct 4, 2004 11:08 am (#142 of 159)
From JKRowling.com:
You said recently that Charlie was two years older than Percy. If that's so, he would have been the Seeker in Harry's first year. Can you clarify his and Bill's ages for us? I knew I'd messed up that question the moment I had answered it, but web chats move fast and I wanted to keep going to get through as many questions as I could. Bill is two years older than Charlie, who is three years older than Percy, who is two years older than Fred and George, who are two years older than Ron, who is a year older than Ginny. Sorry. Maths is not my strong suit (though it's better than my geography, as those who have found the most recent Easter Eggs might already know).
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Loopy Lupin - Oct 4, 2004 2:23 pm (#143 of 159)
All the machinations people have gone through trying to make Charlie's age work as JKR originally stated always gave me a headache. But, before there is a clamor to shut this thread down behind "Is Lupin Really James Potter" (and a most noble resting place that theory does, indeed, deserve), let me throw out a question: Does the new math work now? Or is there still a glitch JKR hasn't seen yet?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 4, 2004 10:46 pm (#144 of 159)
Percy graduated Hogwarts in June 1994, this means that he started at Hogwarts in September 1987 and was born in 1976.
According to this last statement from J.K. Rowling, Charlie is three years older than Percy meaning he graduated in June 1991 three years before Percy this indicates that Charlie started at Hogwarts in September 1984 and was born in 1973.
Bill is two years older than Charlie this means that he graduated in June 1989 two years before Charlie which, indicates that he started at Hogwarts in September 1982 and was born in 1971.
This new information means that Bill was at most 24 years old at beginning of Order of the Phoenix. Charlie was at most 22 years old at the beginning of Order of the Phoenix, and Percy was at most 19 years old at the beginning of of Order of the Phoenix.
When taken with all the textual evidence I think this is the most likely the correct answer. At the very least it is by far the most feasible answer for the following reasons.
First, this new information removes the extraordinarily wide age diifference between Charlie and Percy that has been previously postulated and discussed.
Second, this new statement lessens the age diference between Bill and Fleur making their relationship more plausible.
Third, it also reinforces the fact that Bill, Charlie, Percy, Fred, and George were contemporaries of Nymphadora Tonks in school.
Best Regards, Nathan
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Czarina II - Oct 5, 2004 5:07 am (#145 of 159)
Charlie and Tonks were in the same year, though apparently not in the same House.
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Loopy Lupin - Oct 5, 2004 5:37 am (#146 of 159)
Why is is apparent that Tonks and Charlie were not in the same house?
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Czarina II - Oct 5, 2004 2:58 pm (#147 of 159)
Didn't Tonks say that she wasn't in Gryffindor? And Charlie would have had to be in Gryffindor in order for Ron to say that all of his brothers were there.
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haymoni - Oct 6, 2004 10:04 am (#148 of 159)
I just remember her saying that her Head of House didn't think she had what it took to be a Prefect.
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S.E. Jones - Oct 18, 2004 11:44 pm (#149 of 159)
Let it snow!
We're not told Tonk's house....
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Maddest Dragon - Oct 24, 2004 9:03 pm (#150 of 159)
You're right, we're not told Tonks's House. But I thought she was probably a Gryffindor (didn't most people?). She seems to have Gryffindor traits: "their daring, nerve, and chivalry set Gryffindors apart." And maybe she didn't have what it took to be a prefect. Didn't she say she was something of a troublemaker in school? In any case, her personality suggests that she would've been a willing rule breaker as a teenager.
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Paulus Maximus - Oct 25, 2004 10:35 am (#151 of 159)
And Ron isn't a rule breaker?
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The One - Oct 28, 2004 11:01 am (#152 of 159)
Open minded sceptic
And Ron isn't a rule breaker?
How many rules have he broken? Not that many, really, except when promted by others.
Hermione on the other hand, breaks rules whenever it suits her.
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Paulus Maximus - Oct 28, 2004 11:19 am (#153 of 159)
And Hermione was a Prefect, just like Ron.
And undoubtedly chosen by the same people, on the same criteria, as Ron was.
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The One - Oct 28, 2004 11:29 am (#154 of 159)
Open minded sceptic
That's true. I did not contradict your point that rule breakers may be Prefects, just peoples perception of Ron as a rule breaker. (Which makes it a bit OT)
Back on topic. Fred and George are rulebreakers, very public so, and neither of them was prefects. Perhaps Tonks shared some qualities with them?
But unlike the twins she must have achieved good marks, otherwise she would not have been accepted for Auror training.
EDIT I just discovered that this was not the Tonks thread after all....
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Paulus Maximus - Oct 28, 2004 10:40 pm (#155 of 159)
"Fred and George are rulebreakers, very public so, and neither of them was prefects. Perhaps Tonks shared some qualities with them?"
Perhaps, but so did Ron and Hermione.
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Tomoé - Nov 4, 2004 4:40 pm (#156 of 159)
Back in business
Ron and Hermione did help to save the school from Voldemort, Slytherin's basilisk, saved buckbeak and help a innocent (well, as innocent as Sirius can be ^_^) man to escape a fate worst than death (did they do something to help the scholl in GoF?). The twins have done nothing of the like, nor the marauders (between years 1 to 4 of course), nor Tonks.
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Elanor - Nov 28, 2004 11:25 pm (#157 of 159)
Happy birthday Bill!
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Sir Tornado - Nov 29, 2004 2:47 am (#158 of 159)
Rebel without a cause.
Happy Birthday Bill. Bill turns 33 today.
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Kip Carter - Nov 29, 2004 11:36 am (#159 of 159)
co-Host with Steve on the Lexicon Forum, but he has the final say as the Owner!
I have closed this thread out and moved it to the Archive folder where our editors will eventually have fun with it. JKR has answered this question on her site.
fleur delacour bill weasley age gap
Source: https://hplf.forumotion.com/t240-bill-and-charlie-how-old-are-they
Posted by: kennedyforperfatim.blogspot.com
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